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DOOM 3 or not DOOM 3?
December 13th 2004, 15:26 CET by JasonB

It looks like DOOM 3 the movie will be in the theaters on August 5, 2005.
Budget:  $70M
Director: Andrzej Barkowiak (Cradle 2 the Grave)
Writer:   Dave Callahan (???)
Actors:  Karl Urban (Eomer from Lord of the Rings)
            Rosamund Pike (Hottie from Die Another Day)            
            "The Rock"  (Soon to be Governor "The Rock" ?)

Screenwriter Dave Callahan claims “everyone was keen to keep the game’s atmosphere”, though there are some “minor” changes done to the film’s concept: The monsters have nothing to do with hell, the plot is not taking place on Mars and “space marines” are not well “space marines” as their outfits are more like SWAT team members.

So what's DOOM 3 about this movie?  After "Final Fantasy", "Wing Commander" and "Tomb Raider" do we have any right to expect any movie based on a game to be worth watching?  The writer describes the movie as more of a horror film than an action flick...who is this jerk and where can I send the hate mail?
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#33 by Greg
2004-12-13 17:27:10
While Wing Commander and Tomb Raider might have been considered crappy movies, they stayed true to the source material. Final Fantasy didn't have a whole lot to do with the games, other than somewhat familiar themes.

こんにちは
#34 by LPMiller
2004-12-13 17:42:34
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Which is true to the source, because the FF games don't make a lick of sense either.

When LP says he's bringing Armageddon, he brings fucking Armageddon. - Caryn, 6/01/2004
#35 by jjohnsen
2004-12-13 17:45:45
http://www.johnsenclan.com
The second was them crash landing in Utah only to find everything infested and run-amok, Zombie filled supermarkets, etc. Flesh-trains of the damned, screaming biomechanical wreckage, it was really quite nice.

Sounds like the Utah I know, is it non-fiction?

Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore.  -LP
#36 by m0nty
2004-12-13 17:47:29
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
I don't know how you could expect a Hollywood film about Doom to not be slashed to ribbons by conservative censors in the current political environment. It was an exercise in futility to attempt the movie in the first place.
#37 by McBain
2004-12-13 17:50:50
And lots of "Where the fuck did that come from?!  That room was cleared!?  Fuck, if you can't design a level properly, stop being cheap by dropping enemies out of nowhere and go back to tormenting puppies." moments

I'm not sure why this bothers people so much.  Is it not plausible for a room you haven't been in a while to have had enemies wander back into it from somewhere you aren't aware of?  This is why infinite spawning in Ravenholme didn't really bother me.  It was supposed to seem like a vast city where hoardes of zombie come out of the woodwork to come after you.  That it is possible to catch some of the artifice isn't unforgiveable.  All video games take some suspension of disbelief/imagination.

www.dailyhowler.com is the single most important website that Americans should read every day.
"The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had."
#38 by yotsuya
2004-12-13 17:55:07
Huge Wood has the post of the day in #30.

And

It's simply too hard to believe that Id would allow such a butchering of their brand to take place.

Shouldn't you be busy approving another Duke sidescroller?

"yot's a religious nut that really truly actually believes in a physical heaven with a graybearded man on a throne with an individual master plan for all of us and a Make A Mountain clay kit nearby"- gaggle
#39 by Charles
2004-12-13 17:57:39
www.bluh.org
Final Fantasy didn't have a whole lot to do with the games, other than somewhat familiar themes.


Well... when you consider that no individual game has anything to do with the others except for somewhat familiar themes...

Do-Re-Mi-Fa-SO-LONG-FUCKER!
#40 by ProStyle
2004-12-13 18:00:39
http://prostyle.deviantart.com
Is it not plausible for a room you haven't been in a while to have had enemies wander back into it from somewhere you aren't aware of?  

The problem is they didn't just 'repopulate' areas you had left and returned to. The gameplay in Doom3 revolved around moving forward and encountering a group of enemies in a box. In between you and those enemies is a trigger brush that you hit while moving about, teleporting an imp (autotargeted and in attack mode) a single doorway behind you. Not only was this stupid and tiring after the second time, you could actually hear it happen before you even got through killing the original enemies. The last 6 hours I played the game I ran forward, cleared a room and ran backwards to meet the Imp halfway. Only once or twice was there a slight variation on this, and that was usually based upon the enemies being killed that triggered a new spawning (rather than a physical box). There is absolutely no correlation between the Doom 3 mechanics and your point about Ravenholm (which I agree with you on 100%).

Fabricated like the word absurditive
#41 by McBain
2004-12-13 18:06:23
ProStyle-  Having not played Doom 3, I trust your right.  But in theory, infinite spawning/repopulating areas doesn't bother me.  As long as it's done right.

www.dailyhowler.com is the single most important website that Americans should read every day.
"The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had."
#42 by deadlock
2004-12-13 18:27:10
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Marsh:
What part of being possessed by demons from Hell do you think is compatible with the idea of a virus?

G-Man is one of a growing number of people who can't suspend their disbelief when they go to a horror movie unless it has some cod-scientific explanation as to how IT COULD REALLY HAPPEN.

Greg:
Final Fantasy didn't have a whole lot to do with the games, other than somewhat familiar themes.

And for all its faults was a better movie than either of them (especially Wing Commander - ugh).

They said if I wrote the perfect love song
That you would have me back
So I wrote it
But I lost it
But will you have me back anyway now?
#43 by E-ph0nk
2004-12-13 18:30:16
http://www.electrophonk.be
I didn't dislike the FF movie like most.  It was above average, pretty to look at and the story wasn't too bad for a computergame based scifi movie.

Nothing great, but not a complete failure either

#44 by deadlock
2004-12-13 18:37:47
http://www.deadlocked.org/
I think it's a shame that Square have decided not to make any more; there really was a lot to enjoy about that film. Who knows what would have happened if Square had teamed up with some one like James Cameron or Ridley Scott for another film using the same technology.

They said if I wrote the perfect love song
That you would have me back
So I wrote it
But I lost it
But will you have me back anyway now?
#45 by McBain
2004-12-13 18:39:57
The FF movie was shit.

www.dailyhowler.com is the single most important website that Americans should read every day.
"The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had."
#46 by LPMiller
2004-12-13 18:40:16
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
The movie would be twice as long and still pretty confusing?

When LP says he's bringing Armageddon, he brings fucking Armageddon. - Caryn, 6/01/2004
#47 by deadlock
2004-12-13 18:41:56
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Maybe, but in fairness both of those directors have produced some great works in their time.

They said if I wrote the perfect love song
That you would have me back
So I wrote it
But I lost it
But will you have me back anyway now?
#48 by UncleJeet
2004-12-13 18:44:46
I want to know what happened to the Nocturne movie that was optioned oh so long ago.  With the crap movies like League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Van Helsing, there was/is obviously some market for a period-piece movie about supernatural monsters and those who kill them.

I know everyone hates Nocturne, but hate of the gameplay and control issues aside, surely you have to agree that it had one of the coolest settings and main characters of any game of recent memory.  Surely, you must!

#49 by Shadarr
2004-12-13 18:45:52
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Shadows aren't that big a deal in movies.  What else does Nocturne have to offer?

Like you never put up a dead baby fetus website?  - Your Friend
#50 by FormerFlyGuy
2004-12-13 19:11:35
ProStyle-  Having not played Doom 3, I trust your right.  But in theory, infinite spawning/repopulating areas doesn't bother me.  As long as it's done right.


Me either.  But it should be noted that Doom 3 did *not* do it right.  I played maybe 6 hours of it before I simply couldn't be bothered any more.

Oh and the 'we're so futuristic we can't figure out to tape a flashlight onto our gun' shit?  Asstastic.
#51 by Jibble
2004-12-13 19:13:38
AHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAHAHAHA.

It's even funnier when you get to the fifth paragraph.

Well it beats going to the video store to rent the latest hardcore releases twice a week. - G-Man
#52 by McBain
2004-12-13 19:14:11
I don't understand why the flashlight didn't shine where the crosshair was.  What the fuck is the point of a crosshair otherwise?

www.dailyhowler.com is the single most important website that Americans should read every day.
"The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had."
#53 by BobJustBob
2004-12-13 19:14:21
That's priceless.

Dood.
#54 by BobJustBob
2004-12-13 19:14:35
Not the ring.

Dood.
#55 by McBain
2004-12-13 19:14:54
Jibble, yeah that guy is an idiot.  Also, the doctor should be shot.

www.dailyhowler.com is the single most important website that Americans should read every day.
"The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had."
#56 by FormerFlyGuy
2004-12-13 19:22:04
I don't understand why the flashlight didn't shine where the crosshair was.  What the fuck is the point of a crosshair otherwise?


Didn't you know, it's retro.  Apparently in the times whenever 'retro' was, people were dumbasses.
#57 by FormerFlyGuy
2004-12-13 19:23:30
Apparently the guy never heard that rings are made of metal and can be melded back together if you cut them.
#58 by Charles
2004-12-13 19:37:45
www.bluh.org
Is it not plausible for a room you haven't been in a while to have had enemies wander back into it from somewhere you aren't aware of?  


Sure.  But then... why do they never show up if you just stand still?

Do-Re-Mi-Fa-SO-LONG-FUCKER!
#59 by FormerFlyGuy
2004-12-13 19:41:57
Duh, because you haven't hit the invisible brushes!  There's one right behind my chair right now.  That's why I have to make sure to walk around it when I leave my desk!
#60 by G-Man
2004-12-13 19:59:28
#42 deadlock
G-Man is one of a growing number of people who can't suspend their disbelief when they go to a horror movie unless it has some cod-scientific explanation as to how IT COULD REALLY HAPPEN.

When I played Doom, I never actually equated the creatures you were fighting as being strictly from Hell. I always just considered them to be from another dimension or plane of existence or whatever, because the world you inhabited in the game was one of science and not magic. I mean it wasn't as if you met Jesus along the way, or used holy water hand grenades against the enemies. And the number one reason I didn't believe that the monsters were from Hell, was that the end boss of the game was NOT Satan. So yeah, the humans in the base are supposed to be "possessed" by demons or whatever, and you see some sort of glowing ethereal skulls or whatever flying around at the beginning of Doom 3, but why can't the actual mechanism of infection be a virus? Wouldn't that explain why you weren't infected (since you were in a spacesuit at the time)?
#61 by Jibble
2004-12-13 20:01:54
Whenever I played Doom, I didn't think about where the creatures came from or what the backstory was because it really didn't matter.

Well it beats going to the video store to rent the latest hardcore releases twice a week. - G-Man
#62 by LPMiller
2004-12-13 20:05:43
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
whenever I played doom, I got the soothing sensation of an ice cold day in the mountains, whispering down my throat.

When LP says he's bringing Armageddon, he brings fucking Armageddon. - Caryn, 6/01/2004
#63 by BobJustBob
2004-12-13 20:05:54
Whenever I played Doom, I didn't think about where the creatures came from or what the backstory was because it really didn't matter.


I'm that way with every game.

Dood.
#64 by ProStyle
2004-12-13 20:10:35
http://prostyle.deviantart.com
I mean it wasn't as if you met Jesus along the way, or used holy water hand grenades against the enemies. And the number one reason I didn't believe that the monsters were from Hell, was that the end boss of the game was NOT Satan.

Did you miss all of the blood-splatter pentagrams pasted in every other room? Gigantic torture scenes/wax candle sprites? So, the boss wasn't satan... but the gigantic goats skull against the wall seemed undirected to you?

Wouldn't that explain why you weren't infected (since you were in a spacesuit at the time)?

In the Doom 3 intro it is clear you do not have a helmet/full environment suit on. Don't ask me how this allowed for the airlock sequences. If I remember correctly, only certain security troops in the flybys featured masks - and even then what is the possiblity that would filter out an undiscovered "virus that turns you into undead satan spawn"? I'm pretty sure HEPA doesn't cover that just yet.

I'm not saying it's gaurunteed, 100% Christian-Devil-oriented material... but come on. It is blatantly obvious they used that as an art theme to add to the horror and general nastiness of the scenery and creatures. Don't let your fancy lawyering get in the way of your common sense.

Fabricated like the word absurditive
#65 by Jibble
2004-12-13 20:11:14
Though, if you want to make a big hoo-ha about it, we can just consult one of many hundreds of online Doom Bestiaries.

#60 G-Man
...I never actually equated the creatures you were fighting as being strictly from Hell....

What about the "Hell Knight" and the "Baron of Hell".

Well it beats going to the video store to rent the latest hardcore releases twice a week. - G-Man
#66 by BobJustBob
2004-12-13 20:15:40
Or all the Hell levels?

Dood.
#67 by G-Man
2004-12-13 20:18:18
Those were just names that humans gave to them. The pentragrams and such were just a coincidence, i.e. the dimensions they came from and their features were very Hell-like, but not actually Hell. Although, you could do a fancy retcon and say that 4000 or so years ago the portal opened to their dimension and that is what lead to the popular mythology regarding Hell. In which case they would technically be from Hell, but there would be nothing supernatural about it.
#68 by Dethstryk
2004-12-13 20:20:36
jemartin@tcainternet.com
The other dimension is Hell, period. I don't see how you can argue that it's not. It has always been Hell.
#69 by G-Man
2004-12-13 20:20:39
Let me put it another way: If they were really from Hell, how could you ever kill them, let alone with a friggin' chainsaw or shotgun? Wouldn't they be dead or undead or magic or whatever?
#70 by UncleJeet
2004-12-13 20:20:51
I really try and absorb myself in a game as much as I can.  One of the reasons I like Deus Ex so much is that I can really play it out like I want to, however that may be.  But I'm really sort of wacky in this regard, because I try so much to "get into" the game.  When I'm playing Sands of Time, I'm trying my best to shut out the outside world and, more importantly, shut out the idea that I'm playing a game.  On subsequent play-throughs, I'll look at it in the "it's a game" context and start paying attention to the design and textures and animations and such to really try and fit together the different elements that made whatever game I'm playing such a great game.

But I remember playing, I dunno, Wing Commander.  I wouldn't auto land, I'd always do it manually because it helped me to feel more like I was in the game's world.  I rarely seek out time-saving shortcuts in games unless they make sense in the narrative and I don't feel that I'm missing any immersion by using them.

That's what it ALL comes down to in a game, for me.  Immersion.  I really need/want/demand that I game totally wrap me up in its world and absorb me by making everything as believable as possible.

In my mind, every game should be a roleplaying game in the sense that you are the character you're playing.  The Thief games, like Deus Ex, are a great example of the type of roleplaying I'm talking about.  When I'm playing Thief, I really try and play it as if I were Garret and try to do things as I would do them in that context.

Anyway, I'm bizarre.  I know.

#71 by Dethstryk
2004-12-13 20:21:34
jemartin@tcainternet.com
G-Man -

You can't really make an assumption that something from Hell is invulnerable, just because it comes from another plane.
#72 by G-Man
2004-12-13 20:22:21
Jeet, go play Pacman and tell me how you roleplay that one. Anyway, what does all that have to do with the Doom movie?
#73 by UncleJeet
2004-12-13 20:22:24
Let me put it another way: If they were really from Hell, how could you ever kill them, let alone with a friggin' chainsaw or shotgun? Wouldn't they be dead or undead or magic or whatever?

Duh.  You'd be sending them BACK to Hell, upon which time they would have to find another portal to get back out.  I thought everyone knew this sort of standard horror mythology.

#74 by Greg
2004-12-13 20:22:47
Seriously Jeet, you're post could've been solely the last sentence and it would've been the same. Think of the bandwidth costs you've inflicted on morn!

I'm kidding... for the most part.

こんにちは
#75 by Greg
2004-12-13 20:23:10
Er, #74 was referencing #70.

こんにちは
#76 by Jibble
2004-12-13 20:25:25
#66 BobJustBob
Or all the Hell levels?

You mean like "Episode 2: Shores of Hell"?

Maybe you were referring to E3M1 - Hell Keep...or maybe E4M1 - Hell Beneath...no?  What about E4M7 - And Hell Followed?  Maybe you were referring to the full title of Doom II (Hell on Earth)?

Well it beats going to the video store to rent the latest hardcore releases twice a week. - G-Man
#77 by UncleJeet
2004-12-13 20:25:27
Jeet, go play Pacman and tell me how you roleplay that one. Anyway, what does all that have to do with the Doom movie?

It has to do with the talk of how people played Doom and, specifically, the post that said:

G-Man is one of a growing number of people who can't suspend their disbelief when they go to a horror movie unless it has some cod-scientific explanation as to how IT COULD REALLY HAPPEN.

Hope that clears it up for ya, sport.

Anyway, of course there's no roleplaying in Pac-Man - but Pac-Man is hardly a game with a storyline and characters and a narrative and all that good stuff.  Don't get me wrong, I dearly love Pac-Man as a game, but I'm talking about something altogether different.  If you can't make the jump from 80's arcade coin-ops to games of today such as Gothic or KOTOR....well, there's not much I can do to help you.

#78 by UncleJeet
2004-12-13 20:26:23
Seriously Jeet, you're post could've been solely the last sentence and it would've been the same. Think of the bandwidth costs you've inflicted on morn!

Shhhh!  Don't let my secret out, man.  Why do you think I'm always so verbose?  I'm trying to bankrupt the little german freakydink.  Now keep it to yourself!

#79 by Hugin
2004-12-13 20:27:09
lmccain@nber.org
The plot/universe of DOOM is stupid and there's no point trying to reconcile it logically or narratively.
#80 by UncleJeet
2004-12-13 20:28:47
1.) Hugin is right.

2.) Freakydink is a new word, pending Webster's legislation, by the way.

#81 by Dethstryk
2004-12-13 20:31:30
jemartin@tcainternet.com
I usually agree with Hugin, but I can't on his view that the Doom universe is stupid.
#82 by Jibble
2004-12-13 20:33:04
#79 Hugin
The plot/universe of DOOM is stupid and there's no point trying to reconcile it logically or narratively.

If you want to reconcile it logically, you can just say "Carmack was a repressed 23 year old who wasn't getting laid and was kind of angry when he made the game."

While looking up his age, I discovered something vaguely amusing.  The company that the space marine in Doom is forced to work for is named Union Aerospace Corporation (UAC).

Well it beats going to the video store to rent the latest hardcore releases twice a week. - G-Man
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